Showing posts with label Waldensians. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Waldensians. Show all posts

Tuesday, August 25, 2015

Waldensians Reject the Pope's Apology: "We Could Not Forgive"

(Turin) Pope Francis had reached out his hand to Turin's Waldensians during his visit last June. He made controversial gestures to emphasize his intention and asked the Waldensians' forgiveness  from injustice done by Catholics.  Now the Waldensians have given the pope a response. A specially convened Waldensian Synod, which meets until Friday in Turin, rejected the outstretched hand of the Pope and declared themselves unable to grant forgiveness.Vatican Insider talks about an amazing "coldness" toward the Pope.
From April to June 2015, the  Shroud of Turin was on public display. Two million believers took the opportunity to make a pilgrimage to Turin, including Pope Francis. After visiting the shroud Francis paid a visit to the Waldensian temple on 22 June. The first pope to do so. (see Papal Kiss  for Waldensian Bible - Pope Francis, Don Bosco and the Waldensian ).

Pope Francis asked the  Waldensians for forgiveness in June for Catholic injustice

The relationship between Waldensians and Catholics is one of deep conflict. On both sides there were atrocities mainly during  the Middle Ages and the early modern period. Even in the mid-19th century the  Waldensians sought the life of  St. John Bosco.
Pope Francis made the unilateral first step towards reconciliation and asked the Waldensian forgiveness for the injustice committed by Catholics. The Pope had said: "On behalf of the Catholic Church, I ask you for forgiveness for the unchristian and even inhuman attitudes and actions, which we have done to you  throughout history.  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, forgive us! "
The Moderator of the Waldensian Table, Pastor Eugenio Bernardini, responded: "The Pope has overcome a wall that was built eight centuries ago when our church was accused of heresy and excommunicated by the Roman church." The pope did not argue.
To underline his readiness, the Pope kissed a Waldensian Bible which was presented to him by Waldensian pastors. It was a gesture that caused some criticism on the Catholic side.

Waldensian: Radicalized Pauperisten, the Calvinists were


Pope Francis kisses Waldensian Bible in whose main temple in Turin
The Waldensians  originated in the late 12th century as a pietistic movement. Its founder, Peter Valdes, was a contemporary of St. Francis of Assisi. The two movements of Peter Valdes and the Poverello of Assisi, however, went different ways. While St. Francis of Assisi renewed the Catholic Church, Peter Valdes led the way out of the Church.
In the 16th century the Waldensians adopted  Calvinist doctrine and have since been in effect,   Italian Calvinists. Since the 18th century there is, because of   the common hostility to the Catholic Church, close networking between Waldensians and Freemasonry. In the 19th century there was an "Away from Rome" movement in liberal circles of the leading Italian bourgeoisie toward the Waldenses. This movement was not numerically great, but intensified again the opposition. It is estimated that half of the 45,000 Italian Waldensians today go  back to the recent crossing movement. In 1979, the Waldensians  joined together with the Methodists in Italy.

 Waldensian synod specially convened to give the Pope an answer

The outstretched hand of the Pope sparked heated discussions within the Waldensian community. Finally, a  Waldensian synod was specially convened to respond to the Pope on his request for forgiveness. The Synod will meet until Friday in Torre Pellice for Turin. The answer is now clear and is negative. "We're moving, but we can not be forgive."  The decision of the Waldensian Synod can be summarized with these words.
In an official letter to the Pope the Synod declared: "Dear Brother in Christ Jesus, the Synod of the Evangelical Waldensian Church accepts with deep respect and not without emotion, your apology expressed on behalf of your church asking for forgiveness for what you have indeed even described as 'unchristian, even inhuman attitudes and actions' that have been taken in the past against our mothers and fathers," But then this is  followed by a big "but" of the  Waldensians. This new situation does not allow us, to step in the place of those who testified with their blood or the other Protestants suffering for their  faith, and to forgive you. "
This message, rejected the outstretched hand of the Pope, it was decided on Monday by the 180 people gathered at the Waldensian Synod.

No request for forgiveness by the Waldensians for the wrongs they committed

In the message goes on to say: "The fraternal dialogue that we are having today is a gift of God's mercy,  which has forgiven your and our church many times  and still forgives, by inviting to repentance, to conversion and to a new life." In fact, however, the Pope's asking for  forgiveness  has been answered with a affront. The Waldensians retreat to the position that a pardon can be issued only by the victims themselves. Vice versa the apology on the Catholic, the   Mea culpa for years passed  is thus called into question, since accordingly  only the offender could ask for forgiveness, but not their direct or indirect descendants. But this formalist position can not hide the fact that the Waldensians in reality do not want to approach the Catholic Church. Because this could have been expressed differently, despite the question of direct forgiveness.
The Waldensian Synod for their  part couldn't find a word of apology for the wrongs committed by Waldensians against the Catholic Church and the Catholics.
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Vatican Insider / Chiesa e postconcilio
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
AMDG


Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Pope Kisses the Waldensian Bible --- Pope Francis, Don Bosco and the Waldensians

+Bergoglio Kisses Waldensian Bible
(Turin) last Monday, 22 June Pope Francis appeared in the main church of the Vaudois, the day after his pilgrimage to the grave Shroud of Turin in the Piedmontese capital.
It was a scene that was recorded photographically. The Waldensian pastors handed Pope Francis their Bible that the Pope   kissed   before their eyes.
A "disturbing" image, says Chiesa e postconcilio . "What does the great catechism of St. Pius X, # 887. What should a Christian do if he is offered a Bible by a Protestant or an emissary of the Protestants? Answer: When a Christian of a is offered a bible by a Protestant or an envoy, he must reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church; when he  accepts it, not noticing,  then he must throw it immediately into the fire or deliver his pastor."  As far as radio Spada thinks of the episode, what Pius X. here recommends   Christians recommends, so too did St. John Bosco, as he stood against the Waldenses.

"Unchristian, Inhumane Behavior" of the Catholic Church?

Pope Francis has entered as the first Catholic Church leader, into a Waldensian Temple. Certainly it's an historic moment. The Catholic Church leader is quoted in his address to the Waldensian from the Scriptures and that - as expressly stated - in a "interconfessional version".
Francis apologized to the Waldenses for everything that was done to them by Catholics: "On the part of the Catholic Church, I ask you for forgiveness for the unchristian and even inhuman attitudes and actions, which we have done in  history against you. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, forgive us! "

"Pope Overcomes a Wall of Charges of Heresy"


Bare Interior  of Waldensian Church of Turin
The Moderator of the Waldensian Table, Pastor Eugenio Bernardini replied: "The Pope has overcome a wall that was built eight centuries ago when our church was accused and excommunicated by the Roman church of heresy." The pope did not argue.
The Waldensian movement originated as mendicants in 12th century Lyon from the teachings of the merchant Peter Valdes. They understood themselves in response to the civil power then exerted by the Roman Church. Today, they are commonly referred to as aligned to Calvinist Protestants. They  practice a number of errors that have similarities with the Donatists. St. Augustine said of these heretics: "In many ways, the heretics are with me in some others, not; but because of these few points, where they separate from me, it does not help them in everything else to be with me." (In Psa. 54, no. 19, PL 36, 641).
Historically, it is also important that about half of the adherents were  liberals and Freemasons in the 19th century who crossed over from the Catholic Church to the Waldenses. This fact and its liberal attitude meant that they had a lot of weight in spite of their small numbers in state-supporting circles of Turin.

Pius XI. against the "Panchristians"

In Mortalium Animos wrote the Blessed Pope Pius XI. 1928:
"These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians proudly repeat and disseminate; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed."

Don Bosco and his Persecution by the Waldensian


Don Bosco
As Pope Francis in Turin attended a Waldensian Temple, it is good to remember  St. John Bosco, who had done great things in this city. So great that Francis also  paid a visit to the Centre of the Salesian Order, founded in the Valdocco in Turin by Don Bosco  with the large church of Mary Help of Christians. The Saint lived from 1815 - 1888 and experienced at that  time the Italian unification movement, which was to smash the Papal States in 1870.
The Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, with its anticlerical-Masonic state doctrine prepared big trouble for the Piedmontese saint. . As the state persecution finally subsided, then entered these  Waldenses who were placed at the service of the new kingdom. They unfurled lively propaganda activities in Turin, with  attacking Don Bosco and sought to discredit him to the public. Finally, they called him confidently out to theological disputes. All Waldensian leaders of Turin appeared to dispute   the Saints, however, were defeated. Finally, they offered the best known of their pastors, Jean Pierre Meille from Provençal Luzerna e San Jan in Piedmont.

The Dispute with the Famous Waldensian Pastor Meille

The debate in Valdocco took seven hours until it ended with a comic scene. Don Bosco had tried to reason with the history and with the Latin Scriptures. But Meille did not want to admit defeat, and finally said that the Latin Bible was not enough, one must consult the Greek text. Don Bosco stood up, walked to the bookcase, fetched a Greek Bible and put it to the Waldensian pastor out by saying, "Here, sir, the Greek text. You are welcome to refer to it, and you will find that it agrees completely with the Latin text." Meille had bluffed, so as not to have to admit defeat. He had no knowledge of Greek, which is why looked at  the book upside down and leafed through it. When Don Bosco turned it right side up, he was embarrassed, turned crimson, jumped up and stormed out of the hall. The dispute was over.
Then they changed their approach. One Sunday in August 1853, two men came and went to the Saint, one of them was a Waldensian pastor, as it turned out later. They flattered Don Bosco, and finally offered him a considerable sum of money, with the announcement that he would get a lot more of it, if instead of writing books about religion, he would turn to history of science, because his contributions could be so valuable. Don Bosco rejected indignantly, and the two men swore at him and finally even threatened, "If you leave the house, are you are sure to return?"

"Catholic Priests are for the Glory of God and the Good of Souls and Ready to Die"

John Bosco answered them: "I see that you do not seem to know who I am. I am a Catholic priest and Catholic priests are for the glory of God and ready to die for the good of the souls entrusted to them." The two men wanted to attack the Saint physically. Don Bosco took a chair and said, "If I wanted to use violence, I would have the power to make you feel this provocation. The power of the priest is but in patience and forgiveness. So I think that it is time to end this conversation." At that moment the door opened and Giuseppe Buzzetti, a loyal employee of Don Bosco stood in the doorway. The Saint said quietly to him, "Accompany these men to Confession!"
The Waldensians then attacked with other means of persuasion. One evening Don Bosco was called to a patient to take his confession. In the house he found a group of men who flattered him and urged to drink with them a glass of wine. Don Bosco remarked, however, that his glass was filled from another bottle, than the glasses of the men present. When he refused, two of the men were holding him, while the other wanted to for the wine violently. He dealt with predicament in a ruse: "If you believe it is necessarily, then I drink, but let me free, otherwise the wine will only spill". When they released him, he jumped quickly to the door, flung it open and called in the four young men, who had accompanied him to protect him. The men gave up their project in he face of the changing situation. Don Bosco asked a friend to inquire about the background of this attack. It turned out that the men in the house had been paid to poison the saint.

Assassinations against Don Bosco

Called to a dying person, a group of armed men with truncheons lurked for the saint, who would kill Don Bosco. Since the attackers had turned off the light, the Saint could initially protect himself with a table. Alarmed by the noise, his four faithful companions came to his aid, so that he escaped from the house unharmed.
Protestants now wanted facts: On a January afternoon in 1854 Don Bosco got a visit from two men. They called on him to stop the publication of Catholic writings or else we'll fix you. As the threats did not impress the Saint, the men said to him: "Either you do it or you're dead." They pulled guns and held them on the Saint's  breast. "Then shoot!" Dom Bosco hurled against  them  with a strong voice. Giovanni Cagliero, a confidant of the Saint,  had not trusted the men and  therefore followed them on his own initiative to Dom Bosco's room. He now rushed with   loud shouts of  "Help"   into the room, which surprised the two attackers, who wanted to intimidate the Saint that they quickly hid the guns  and ran out of the room.
Despite the many attacks on his life, the saint never wore weapons and  never used violence. He gave himself completely to Providence, which protected him. This included  "Grey", a powerful large dog who repeatedly freed the holy Don Bosco from dangerous situations.

Don Bosco's Concern for a Fallen Priest Who Became a Waldensian Pastor

Vain however, was the effort of John Bosco to the Catholic priest Luigi De Sanctis. The Roman De Sanctis was a member of the Camillian Order,  a professor of theology and a well-known priest in Rome in the 1830s. But in the revolutionary year of 1848, De Sanctis turned his back on the Catholic Church, left his Order and its parish and went to Malta. He became a Protestant and married. A little later he was Vicar of Pastor Meille in Turin and took part in the anti-Catholic magazine "The Evangelical Light", which was directed primarily against Don Bosco. When it came to conflicts within the Waldensians, De Sanctis became Calvinist, which is was what cost him his place in the Waldensians and plunged him into a deep crisis.
Don Bosco contacted De Sanctis on 17 November 1854. He tried to pave the apostate priest's  way back to the Catholic Church. The move may seem surprising, after all, De Sanctis was a "traitor" and had written numerous writings against the Catholic Church, especially attacks against the Sacrament of Penance. But Don Bosco was convinced of the dogma, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. He was concerned about the salvation of the souls of men.
In fact, De Sanctis replied. This resulted in an intense exchange of letters that has been preserved. "You can not imagine the impact that your friendly letter of yesterday had  on me. I could never imagine that there is so much generosity and so much kindness in a man who is my open enemy. Let's make no mistake about it. I fight your principles and you fight my principles, but while you fight me, show me,  love me sincerely ... "
Don Bosco, who was convinced that in a fallen priest there must prevail the largest moral dilemma, which is why he wanted to present him with his hand of friendship, but was disappointed. Six months later, De Sanctis resumed his attacks against the Catholic Church again, went to Florence, returned there back to the Waldensian Church and died a Waldensian in 1869. Don Bosco should speak of a "hardened heart" and a "darkened intellect", which kept its grasp on the former Camillian.
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Chiesa e postconcilio / Wikicommons
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Link to Katholisches...
AMDG


Monday, June 22, 2015

Pope Francis Embraces Heretical Sect

In his last day in Turin, Pope Francis made history by visiting a Waldensian church. It's the first time a Pope visits an Evangelical church of that particular denomination. In doing so, he received a warm welcome.

PASTOR PAOLO RIBET
Waldensian Church (Turin)
"In this path of individuals and churches, we find brothers and sisters who join us along the journey. Today, with great joy, we find ourselves with you, as a new brother in this journey.”

The Pope got to know this Church well in Argentina. With about 30,000 faithful worldwide, it's quite small, with most of its presence in Italy and France.

In his speech the Pope addressed past persecution. He asked for forgiveness on behalf of the Catholic Church.

POPE FRANCIS
"I ask for forgiveness for the non-Christian attitudes and behaviors, some even inhumane, that we carried out against you. In the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord, forgive us.”

Unity, added the Pope, is something they should strive for. Reaching unity though, does not mean uniformity, he explained.

http://www.romereports.com/pg161905-pope-to-waldensian-church-forgive-us-en
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